The Legacy of Choices: Lessons from a Family Reunion

What if the process of healing and reconciliation within our families could pave the way for generational progression? The answer lies in our latest episode where we traverse the compelling journey of family reconnection, generational impact, and the potent power of forgiveness. I'm your host, Byron Ricks, and together with my son, Brandon, we recount our deeply personal encounter with my father's side of the family, shedding light on the profound lessons we learned about healing, understanding differing perspectives, and the capacity to create bridges over chasms of estrangement. Have you ever considered how deeply generational influences shape our beliefs and behavior? Get ready to challenge the prevailing notion that generations don't connect with each other. With a candid exploration of how even adopted children may inherit tendencies from their biological families, we emphasize accountability, grace, and understanding as the cornerstones of healthy family dynamics. Listen to our insights on how today's choices will inevitably mold the lives of those who come after us. We wrap up with a candid discussion about the challenging subject of fear, shame, and their impacts on personal growth and accountability. Learn how standing up for what is right, even if it disrupts familial bonds, can ignite personal growth and initiate generational progression. As we thread the narrative of our personal experiences, we also draw parallels with a Netflix original movie, Luther, digging deeper into themes of recognition, forgiveness, and accountability. This episode promises to leave you contemplating your own family dynamics, responsibilities, and the remarkable potential for forgiveness and growth. Don't miss it!

Byron Ricks, Brandon Ricks and Josh Warmbrodt

6/28/202327 min read

Byron: 0:02

Hello and welcome to our podcast series, the Father Factor Podcast. I'm your host, byron Ricks, and joining me is my co-host and good friend, josh Wombrod. The objective is to give a voice to fathers who are not able to be with their kids, mothers who are raising kids without fathers and children who, unfortunately, are growing up without fathers in their lives. Hello everyone, this is Byron Ricks and you are listening to The Father Factor. I am your host and my co-host is Josh Wombrod, riding shotgun today.

Brandon: 0:56

I am Brandon.

Byron: 0:57

Oh, you see that I am Brandon. Oh sexy.

Brandon: 1:01

Hello, okay.

Byron: 1:05

You know, guys, i missed you, guys, you know.

Brandon: 1:08

I missed you guys. Oh yeah, thank you, it's very flattering, you know.

Byron: 1:12

I think that. Again, i thank everyone who still continue to follow us after we took a little break, but we're back and we're fresh. We just had a great guest in Mike. He has a great story. Was sold separately. Kids sold separately. Kids sold separately. That's deep. I'd be glad, when the book comes out, I want to talk about that some more, But today I want to talk about some of you all know, and if you're new to listening to us, my name is Byron Ricks. I wrote a book searching for dad nine side effects of growing up fatherless and how to overcome them. And I realized there may be more than nine side effects. In fact, if you listen to any of our shows, there are side effects that people brought out that I didn't even know about. I hadn't learned about it. I didn't run across in my studies and my research. So I did a DNA test And in that DNA test I found a first cousin on my father's side. I didn't grow up with my father And the book was about my life, growing up without a father and how much I needed and wanted a dad in my life. And you know my story is about how badly boys, especially boys, need their fathers in their lives. But so those girls I've learned that as well. But boys need a man in their life, A surrogate, if not the real father, biological father. So I found my cousin, or she found me, and we were talking. One day My aunt on my mom's side passed away and I was a bit melancholy And I said to her my cousin Pamela. I said I lost my last living aunt And she said, no, you haven't, You have another aunt in California. And I said really, And at that time she was probably about 94 years old, 94, 95 somewhere in there, And this was pre-COVID, And I really wanted to go visit her. I wanted to go meet her And then COVID hit. You know, everything was shut down. So in January of this year was her 97th birthday and I committed to go meet her. I wanted to meet her and she said, OK, I'd love to meet him. And some backstory is my father was married when I was conceived And so a lot of his family ignored me or didn't want to acknowledge my existence. And so for my cousin to reach out to me and turned out to be a first cousin. So her father and my father were brothers And then introduced me to another cousin, which is Patty and Gerald, which were first parents. Their mother, who's the one that's 97 years old, had the birthday in January And my son and I, Brandon, went to visit them for the first time on her birthday And Brandon got to meet my father's side of the family for the first time And he had some mixed emotions about that. No, I mean no, I didn't, I didn't have any mixed emotions about it.

Brandon: 4:24

No, i was fine emotionally. I had obviously questions, and I looked at that as an opportunity for reconciliation and restoration of broken relationships, because there's a whole line in lineage that was cut off, and so I was looking forward to the opportunity to reestablish what was broken, right, right.

Byron: 4:52

And I was too, and I did that and my family received us well. Brandon and I had a great time. We had good conversation. I actually learned something from my cousin Gerald. Gerald is an accountant, educated. My cousin Patty went to Berkeley. I mean all my cousins on that side. I met four new ones which I'll talk about in a moment All college educated, articulate, love to talk, love to engage. But we talk about men in your lives And I'm going to talk about Gerald a little bit, because Gerald impacted my life and he's the first cousin And I believe I'm a little older than him But he's a man, and when we went to visit him and we were eating and my grandson was with us, so my daughter, my wife, my grandson who lives in California, was there. So Gerald and I had a conversation. Gerald has beginning to talk to Brandon, brandon and Gerald. They communicate And Gerald communicated with me about Brandon And he helped me to understand something that I was missing, as it relates to Brandon's perspective on something And it's amazing how this man who has credibility with me after I haven't known him that long, but he has the credibility with me and we talked about in one of our other shows, men willing to listen And he listened and he was willing to listen and I was willing to listen And I was mad enough to go to my son and say, hey, you know what I missed a point on that. You know, and I apologize that I missed that point and My son received that. But I got that from from this man who's the first cousin and I met not long ago. So going back there, i Met Gerald and Patty again. But I Come to find they brought four other cousins from another brother or another uncle of mine and that was Val Valerie, vicki, barbara Ann and Melvin and We. When my wife was looking at us and we were all there together, my wife said that's your tribe. You know, my daughter said that's your tribe because She could see the characteristics From cousin to cousin, because we're all first cousins. Mm-hmm you know, and it was just a very good experience. But another thing my grandson was with us and My grandson said across from Gerald, and my grandson is a very bright young man, smart guy, but He, you know, he, how can I say it? Brandon, he, i Don't want to throw him under the bus, but he's, he doesn't, how can I say it?

Brandon: 8:07

Well, depends on what you're trying to say. I know right, because he may be listening to this podcast. I know right now I want him to listen to this podcast.

Byron: 8:13

That's fine, but he's just a guy that sometimes he procrastinates Yeah right, he procrastinates and I know that as a grandfather I get frustrated and I just I Just say, okay, do it if you do it, if don't, if you don't, i because I get tired. So but he was talking to my cousin Gerald and I don't again know what they were talking about because I was engaged with my other cousins, but I would, can see him out of the corner of my eye and and all of a sudden I could see his face. He wasn't looking good, he was, he was frustrated. You could see the frustration on his face. And Later I learned that he was talking to my cousin Gerald and my cousin Gerald just called him out, just called it a spade. A spade, if you will. Yeah, well, gerald, you know, as a very matter of fact, you know, he's very candid, individual, right, He's very straightforward to the point, which, which I like, right, you know but Gerald, on those backstory, on Gerald, gerald, in 18 months went from a single man to a widow with two kids and He raised two boys and so he Understands how to interact with boys, with men, and that's what I get from him, that's what I sense from him when I, when I because I had never had that on that level. Even though I'm a little older than him, he's still a man's man and he interacts with me that way and he interacted with my grandson that way because in his mind He said that's came folk and he was just real with him. And my grandson said I was upset initially But I had to accept the truth. Even my daughter said and this another thing don't help with women, right? Whenever Gerald said to my grandson, my daughter and my wife clapped It's making feel worse. You know, saying that's like the. Putting on the sound effect right now right.

Josh: 10:23

It's an extra sound effect, oh.

Byron: 10:26

So it was a fun experience. I learned that One of my cousins, valerie I believe it was past the bar exam in California In the top 3% of everyone that took the bar In that year. Wow, look out. Yeah you know, cousin Gerald Melvin is an educator, assistant Superintendent at a university, vicki just retired as a court reporter and Barbara Ann speaks five languages And you, but you look at her, you would not think she speaks five languages you know so five languages that she speaks. She speaks. you know what? I'm put this on a recording So I probably don't want to You know Sam right, because I don't remember, i know, but like one is like German, you know French and Like two of, i mean, they're not, they're tough languages. I think one is Portuguese. Mm-hmm. She speaks five languages, man And, but they're but to look at her. When I say to look at her, they're just very Casually dressed people. You know you just they, they are. I enjoyed the time with them and it helped me to see some of my lineage. You know some of my DNA on that side of the family and it was a fun trip. My wife now claims that side of the family as hers.

Josh: 12:04

Oh yeah, you know she's like does it stake the?

Byron: 12:07

claim, so I enjoyed that. So just update you guys. And now we're planning to take a Family cruise or something to that nature. I'm looking forward to that.

Josh: 12:20

Oh yeah. So, as far as interacting, just getting in there, what were your initial feelings? you know, as you, let's say, whether it's come up to the house, the restaurant, the initial Yeah, initial interaction you know, because the first meeting went so well, i, yeah, i had no anxiety on the second meeting.

Byron: 12:50

In fact, the first meeting I didn't have any real anxiety because Patty and I have been talking for several months and she was ecstatic, mm-hmm, you know, and she open received me with open arms and my family with open arms. So the question mark was removed.

Josh: 13:05

It was removed because she, because of how she I guess What's the word? I should you win?

Byron: 13:12

right, she received me. See That they grew up with my father. They knew him. They call him, you know, uncle Summers, you know. Yet they also realized he was a man. Mm-hmm you know, and he was a man of means, and, and even if he weren't a man of means, a man, and we know, men do what men do, and so it wasn't for a fetch for her or Gerald to believe I was their cousin, you know, and in fact Gerald said, soon they saw the picture, he said oh yeah, you look just like your daddy, you know, and Gerald and I look a lot alike, you know.

Josh: 13:49

so I've got a tough question for you, okay, and it just goes back to past episodes. You know even something Brandon said in regards to your sisters right, right, okay, they're very different reception, right, right, and Why do you think it was so easy for them to accept you, whereas your sisters or wasn't?

Byron: 14:11

you? That's a great question. I just I think that Is how they grew up. You know, again, my father, from my sister's perspective, kind of walked on water, i mean. You know he was, he was a big fish. You know, in the town that they lived in, conservatives Crossed the eyes, dr Tease, you know. I mean remember when my father died, on his obituary they listed he was a member of two churches. So we know we're gonna make it to heaven, right Cuz, you know. You know, so they're that way. Whereas my aunt, who raised Patty and Gerald, was an educator. She was a school teacher And she taught special education, not special education, gifted kids. I'm sorry, but her husband died, i think, when Gerald was about 10. So she raised two kids on On her own and so they were the product of a female, having raised them, whereas my sisters were raised in this conservative Mother father. In fact, my father's wife was also a school teacher, you know, and he was a A what a more teacher. A mortician, but he was like there's a name for him, you know, he's like he's a, he's a top dog. Oh gee, no, gerald's going to correct me on this one. He's not going to correct me, but he's going to tell me. They tell me he was like director of something, right. And so in fact Gerald tells this story about my father talking to Lou Rawls, right, just to give you a sense of what my father felt about himself. Talking to Lou Rawls at some event in LA, and one of his daughters came to get him because it was time to do sit down or eat or whatever it was, but he just kept pushing away. And so daughter finally said Dad, you know, lou Rawls is a very important man. And he looked at her and said hell, i'm important. So that just kind of gave you a sense of what my father was. But to answer your question again, some more about my sisters. When I talked to my sisters about us being sister and brother, initially she believed it. But then when my father said no, he must be mistaken. I said to her well, let's do a DNA test. And she said, no, i don't want to do a DNA test. And I said well, your father and my father, that's my father as well. She says, well, i have to believe my father. What does that say to you about the difference in how they were? raised.

Josh: 17:05

She said I have to not to tell him the truth, but I have to believe him.

Byron: 17:10

She was raised that way.

Josh: 17:12

Raised that way and then think about it also. I mean, it's kind of like a cell. You're sitting in a cell because if I had to believe him, if I don't believe him here, how many other times did I know that he was wrong? And I'm just not ready to address that, right, Because this is going to unravel all of the things that I've kind of like mm. Okay, yeah, I got to believe him. I got to believe him, Right. Yeah. I got to believe him. That is like the king of. If that comes true, then everything unravels. That's my assumption with it.

Brandon: 17:49

That's the possibility. So now that makes me curious. Then, because you know I got the text from you, you know. So I'm now curious to know what the conversation that you had with Gerald, that you know, made you see. First of all, we, you know we talked about a lot of different things, so I don't know what perspective specifically you were able to he was able to get you to see my perspective on. So I would love to hear about that, because I don't have any context. I just saw the text messages that came through and you know I'm, you know me, i'm not, i'm not a person who holds grudge. Anyway, i don't take offense, i had forgotten about the conversation altogether. I'm, i was fine, but I now I'm curious to know what that correspondence was and what Gerald kind of explained about, whatever it is you know felt my point was Well, i don't know if I'm going to disclose that here, but what I will say is you were upset with my sisters And you were upset with my dad.

Byron: 18:58

In fact, one of the other podcasts you talked about secrets and generations and people dying with secrets And you were upset with my sisters for not accepting me and acknowledging me. And even when you and I went to visit and you had all these questions, you remember, you and I got into a debate and argument And I was. I was frustrated with you and because I was afraid of what you were going to ask. I was afraid that you were going to go in there and in in, destroy a relationship that hadn't even been built yet. And so you know what I did. I preempted that and I just told them my son has a lot, of, a lot of questions and Gerald and Patty both said ask him. And you did ask some. I think, courtney, you, you, you didn't ask everything you wanted to at that time. I don't remember exactly, but what Gerald made me understand is that, whether I agreed with you or not, you had every right to feel the way you felt, and he understood why you felt that way. I didn't, because, from my perspective at the time. My, what my father did didn't have, where I saw it, any impact on you, because the way I saw it was, i was there for you from day one, from birth I cut the umbilical cord, i was there for soccer games, i was there for everything. So it I couldn't understand or appreciate you being angry with my father or how he not being in my life impacted you, and Gerald helped me to understand that.

Brandon: 20:56

Yeah, and I think that's the reason why, you know, i do bring this up on a regular basis, because I and you know, i know that you know you, you know you and Josh, you guys get a little perturbed with me when I when I harp down on previous generations, but there's a reason why I do that. You know I believe in accountability and you know I also believe that there's grace that has to be given and there's understanding. But I am I am perplexed at the assertion that generations don't connect to each other. It's it's. where did that idea come from? To me, it is 100% logical to ascertain that what I do in my generation will impact the next generation, and then so on and so forth. So this, this idea that that my behavior, in my actions, are self-contained within my lifetime and have no impact on those that come after me, is is, to be quite frank, is asinine, and I and I I struggle with the, the letting off of the hook of individuals who claim to be intelligent people but yet don't have anywhere with all to know that their decision making in will impact Future generations, because we have ancient texts that says so. So, on one hand, you have individuals that claim to be of a certain belief system, but they must not have picked up anything That is written according to their own beliefs, because we have documents that are 30,000 years old that says that Generations will be impacted by the sins of the parents. right, so you can do, you know, like we had Mike on the on the on the on the show and a previous episode, and he talked about his adoptive parents and they did everything well, and you know, for the most part, not everything will obviously No one's perfect, but he was raised well, right, but yet in his life he recognized that he had certain tendencies that came from his biological father. Well, where do you think those tendencies came from? they came from past Generational behaviors that get passed down even though he didn't raise, it, wasn't raised in the household of the family. So I harp on those things and I'm very adamant about that, because I believe there needs to be accountability And a cognition that what you do will impact those that come after you.

Byron: 23:26

Okay, let me say this for my biological father. He was a good father and husband, for the most part to to his daughters. They love him, my cousins, first cousins who grew up with them, all of him. I Have been a good father, not a perfect father and you are now a good father.

Josh: 23:52

So that generational well, i'll say this about that, let me. Let me give a different perspective to that, right, because what I get what you're saying, but what if? What if the generation before the generation we're talking about, like, was so much worse? and this is the progress of generational work. You know it's not, you may not get everything, and I resonate with that because my daughter, i, didn't go to college.

Speaker 2: 24:17

Yeah, i mean you get the chance, but my daughter wants to be a doctor.

Josh: 24:20

She's doing pre SAT or not pre, as the Sylvan you know now the person that owes us money. So, sylvan, she doing that SAT stuff, so she can get you know a couple points gives you more bands per for the Cool. Yeah, we'll do it. Where did she get that Right? that was something that I was anti because I just didn't believe in self. Right, my father wasn't big on the education aspect of things. My mother, like, none of them were. So point is is that I recognize, oh, this is a problem and I tried to address it, but I can guarantee you I didn't pass on some other foolishness To her, even though I'm better than what my father was, who was better than what his father was, and let's hope His father was better than his father, right, let's hope that Sometimes you have that one where they just can't get right. You know, like life, just You just gotta shake your head. There's nothing out of this one, they. They then took a good thing and messed it up, and that I get that. But what if there is a generational progression because we started so far back?

Brandon: 25:28

Yeah, i agree with that. Progression came through recognition, right? So Byron recognized the shortcomings and then corrected them. But you can't correct what you don't recognize or acknowledge, and that's where accountability comes in. You see what I'm saying. When the progression came through, you having understanding that The way that this was done was incorrect and it should not be perpetuated to the next generation. So therefore, you made progressive steps to correct the past behaviors. Yes, if you do not correct the past behaviors, if you do not Correct Or if you do not acknowledge, you cannot correct. It's no different than I'm sure that you've been around individuals who have been addicted. Okay, the things right. Well, everybody knows. Right, you cannot help the addict until the addict is willing to what Help themselves. Right, the attic has to come into a place to where they recognize that there is a problem. They have to say it with their own mouth I have a problem. And then, once you recognize I have a problem, then you can do what? go, get help for that problem And you're willing then to put support around you to assist you with the problem. My issue is not the recognition of a problem. My problem is the lack of recognition that there's a problem at all and acting as if there's no problem, and then everything is fine and we're just gonna go along like I don't think that's what it was with who with who?

Josh: 26:51

I'm just outside perspective with you, you know, with your grandfather.

Brandon: 26:54

Well, no, that is because he's Recognize that that he did something. But what do you mean?

Josh: 26:59

But, but understand this that man had a family in his home, that it could have been an either or situation, and So do I disrupt the entire harmony of the home. For this one, whose mama has given it, made it somewhat challenging for me to see in the past, which is why I went cold and walked away. Now I opened this door. What does that do to Home? you should have thought about that before you did what you couldn't right.

Brandon: 27:28

I know you should have thought about that before you did what you did but.

Josh: 27:32

But that's where the mistake. But that's where the flesh comes, and that's where that's where you insert Jesus here, because if that was the case, then we wouldn't need, and then when you make a mistake, then you rectify it. So but let me say this how do you rectify something like that If you're having to choose between having to look your, your, your, these kids in the eyes, who you looked at every single day, and your wife, and know that if I do this, it ends All?

Brandon: 27:56

of that's called consequences. Yeah, right, but your action was the consequences.

Josh: 28:02

Either way, there's a consequence, right, and it's almost like that's not the child's one, that's your fault. But there's two children involved, so it's either I disrupt him or I disrupt them. How do I make this decision with Celeste or the two evil?

Byron: 28:16

There isn't. I hear both both perspectives on that. I Will say this since we're talking about my, my, my biological father.

Josh: 28:25

Right, we are gonna write you a day.

Byron: 28:27

No, no but, I think you both right Really, and I'm not trying to be a politician here, but because at some point I used to call my father a coward. Okay, a coward, you know, and he served under. I'll forget the great general who served under now, right now, it'll come to me in a minute. But you know, in a World War two, i think it was Korean War. No, it was a Korean War, korean War, korean War. Was that Eisenhower? Patton must've been Patton. It's certain pattern and You know he had all these metals. You know bravery. When you read his by obituary It was MacArthur, actually MacArthur. Okay, all these we read is obituary. And I said he was a coward because at some point You did impact this kid's life. At some point you got to suck it up and and say I Did this and he never did that, not not to his family openly. Mm-hmm now he did it to, told me, told others, but he never said to his wife and his kids Yeah, i fathered that boy. You know, and maybe you, you have some grounds, justification when I'm kid, when I say justification, some fear as a kid. But by the time I'm 20, 30 years old, was your wife gonna go. What is it gonna do? it is it's the fear of Them seeing him in a different light.

Josh: 30:04

Right, because it's gonna get. The thing is is, think about it though. It's, shame It's. These are not good feelings, these are things that come from the enemy and, to your point right, things that we need to address attack. I'm not saying he's right, i'm playing literally devil's advocate right here. Right, because I've had to come to a place to recognize, both with my mother and father, that I was dealing with children, teenagers. You know foolishness, and if I had to, you know, though, i handled similar age with responsibility differently. The only reason I did that is because I did no better. I recognize what it did to me. Because I had no one, i self-sued. I had to handle myself right. So I can see at both sides, because there's times I just want to leave like I'll be real. I tell my wife all the time I love my kids, but you know, if I just choose to have kids, i wouldn't have chose not to have.

Brandon: 30:57

This is the reason why you don't make decisions based on how you feel. Mm-hmm, okay, and this is what we talk about. You know, with previous guests and I go back because Mike was our most recent guest that we had on the show and we just talked about You know, he made a statement of. You know, the testosterone is, is, is not what Definitely defines you as a man, but it, it's, there's a there's, it's not machismo, but being a man is stepping up to the plate and recognizing when you've made a mistake and And acknowledging it exactly and that in that acknowledgement, right. So You know, look at, look at King David, for example, right, and this, this messed with me for a quite a long time. All right, i don't like King David. Now, the the Bible says that King David was a man after God's heart. Okay, and I struggled there for a long time, to be quite honest, because King David was a terrible father. I mean, if you go and look at King David's lineage, it is a disaster, a complete disaster. All of his kids, okay, ended up. One kid tried to overthrow him Okay. The other kid raped his sister, all right. Solomon ended up worshiping all manner of idols. His whole household was out of order, mm-hmm. But you know what made King David a great man? it was his acknowledgement of his shortcomings, and He lamented. He. He did not act as if there was nothing wrong with him, right, he was broken by the fact that he did not parent. Well, he was broken by these things, and he cried out to God and asked for forgiveness. Okay, so I Recognize that we, as men, we make mistakes, and you and you do things that are not, that are gonna fall short, right, but it's the acknowledgement it is, it is the recognition that I messed up, and, and whatever Consequences come with that, if it, if it means that you know my wife, it leaves me. That's my fault, but I, what I may save, though, is this relationship with my, with my daughters and my son Okay, that could have bonded together and There is forgiveness if you, if you listen to Shaq right, shaq talks about right now.

Speaker 2: 33:17

Yeah, listen to him right. He says that he was an idiot. He knows it's my fault. It was my fault, right?

Byron: 33:21

I had a good wife. He had a good wife.

Brandon: 33:23

Okay, but it was. It's the recognition and the willingness to in Encourage, say I messed up.

Josh: 33:30

I made a mistake. I fully agree, but however. There's a however. Right now, we don't know the internal struggle in battle that man had with God. We don't know those things and and that's the thing is that Grace is a gift from God. We can choose to exercise it as well. We can offer that gift too. I don't know the full history, we don't know what fights they had about Byron, we don't know what happened behind closed doors, right? And so There's certain thing, there's a, there's a point where we can acknowledge Yes, i agree with you. However, the analogy I would give you is if you in the top of a burning building, you know in the 50th floor, are you jumping off to start us to survive, or are you gonna burn to death? Trying to survive like what? which one? and if he felt that might have been how he felt, right, wrong or indifferent. It gives a more depth to the, the thought process and the torment That he lived in perpetually, not saying it wasn't like again, it's a consequence. That torment is part of that consequence, because there is freedom, and as a Christ follower, he should have known there is freedom in truth, right, so I agree with you, but I also have to say What type of prison.

Byron: 34:48

Okay, i'm gonna, i'm gonna add a dimension to this. My mother also has to take some responsibility, absolutely, okay, absolutely. You know, so That she could have done a lot more Mm-hmm to make it easy. To make it easier. Mm-hmm because each time I Other than when I got to be about 1718 each time I interacted with him, my mother will make a call and he respond immediately, immediately so, but my mother was, you know, i wrote the book angry mama drama. That was kind of based on my mother, because my mother was angry with my father and my mother was one of those women who said I don't need a man to raise this kid.

Brandon: 35:34

Yeah, yeah, absolutely Yeah right.

Byron: 35:35

And so now you move me all the way to Chicago and You do nothing to facilitate a relationship with the man, and he's probably. I'm a man, i wouldn't. I wouldn't have done what my father did. Obviously I didn't, but I Understand it, in that he's Living this state, i'm in this state and he's battling with this woman. It's like you know what. I can keep this undercover.

Josh: 36:00

Yeah, so you right you shared, was it? last time we met a part I had to hold myself together. Just be honest. You talked about You know him coming to Chicago Calling like hey and you trying to. Yeah, my father's dead boy right and that all of the you never felt the peace and the comfort. Oh, i would argue He probably hasn't since that day either, because at that point I don't know when he gave up, but she, you know she interrupted that moment and Understand the broken-hearted rejection a man has to face being denied his child. I've had my child peeled off my chest, you know, because mothers had right in the center, george, even though she abandoned her right. So I understand some of the heartbreak and coward in all The fear he had to go back in and re-encounter a Life-destructive devastation that he can't even speak to anybody about. He just has to live with that. There is certain.

Brandon: 37:05

Yeah, that's because obviously, yeah, there's a huge amount of accountability that has to be you know, place on on on my grandmother too as well. Obviously right, and you and you know, and in, you know, yes, of course you have to have this. There's equal accountability. You have to have a balance of that, you know, and so we haven't really dove into that. So I'm, i'm, you know, i want to make sure that I am. I don't have any Favoritism as it as it relates to that. You know what I want to tell you about it. So it's funny enough, when I you know I was, i was telling you I went on previous episode, i was, i was in on a trip, i was on a trip and I Came back super late and I I couldn't go to sleep. You know, sometimes you can't go to sleep, you know you're exhausted. And I turned on, i turned on Netflix and there was this movie on a Netflix original called Luther. Have you guys seen this movie? It's yes, you saw Luther. Luther. Yeah, yeah, it's got Idris Elber, idris.

Byron: 38:03

Elber, yeah, okay, so I'm serious.

Brandon: 38:06

Well, no, no, no, it's only a movie.

Byron: 38:07

Well, it's a movie he did. They've done a movie, but he has a series prior before the movie. Mm-hmm I. Okay, yeah, it's about three, two, three, three, three, four seasons, yeah, but anyway, yeah, there was a CEO really so this was a movie I saw, right, right, okay so the in the movie?

Brandon: 38:22

All right, what was the whole premise of this movie, right? is that this serial killer, this nutcase guy, all right, he was Pretty much getting all he would kill themselves, right, and they're trying to figure out why are all these people killing themselves? What's going on? He had secrets on them exactly right, all right, he was able to use the internet to tap into people's you know Amazon echoes into their webcams, and he caught them doing all manner of things where there's having affairs, pornography, you know bad business dealings, and he was able to use this guilt and shame and Leverage them against because the people didn't want their secrets revealed. Okay, so he was able to say I know what you did and I'm gonna share these screenshots with your wife, with your mother up with your job, and If you don't meet me in this location, well, when the person would meet them, he would torture them and kill them. Okay, so, the guilt and shame and the the Fear of being exposed Yeah, all right, fear of rejection drove these individuals not only to Put themselves in a situation to where they ended up dying and being tortured and take you had their life taken anyway, right, it also compromised individuals that were in good places, because he was able to get to some people in law enforcement, in the, in the detective's office, because they had done things Right. Okay, and so he was able to to twist them to get them to do evil, all right, so that they could keep their image of who they were. Bam, all right, and this is what I'm battling against. Right, all right, and the movie was about. This premise is that, at the end of the day, you and Luther was the same kind of guy. Right he was. He got, went to jail. He was a detective. Right, they got him. He got caught up in bribery but he still had good in his he was. He was okay with dealing with whatever backlash came because he wanted to still Live in his identity of being a detective. Right, and he was able to solve the crime and he was absolved for whatever he had done. Right, because he ended up solving this major crime. Right. And I think that we too often are so afraid of the Revelation of guilt and shame because what we think the world is gonna think about us. As opposed to just leaning into the discomfort and Sometimes you have to be willing to say you know what I messed up I need to lean into this discomfort, this is gonna pass, i'll get through it, okay, and on the other side of it is gonna be healing. But if you, if you never address it, it's far worse to go to your grave with something as if it never happened.

Josh: 40:52

No, I agree and we got a wrap here. One thing I want to reference back to is Mike Most recent guests. It's really falls in here and something I used to tell myself. I was an accident. I used to tell people and asked me about my parents. I was an accident.

Byron: 41:06

Yeah, I was a mistake.

Josh: 41:07

Yeah, I just say that Mike did have that quote. There's no such thing as an accidental kids, i'm sorry. No such thing as accidental kids, just accidental parents. Yeah, so, on that note, with the discussion we've had, we had two accidental parents trying to figure out a way to handle this wonderful gift of a child, and That's often how this wraps up right. So again We'll jump to Byron because he has the perfect tagline to wrap this up with well, you've been listening to the father factor.

Byron: 41:40

My name is Byron Rickson. I'm your host. My co-host is Josh Wombrock. Writing shotgun is my son, brandon Rick's. I hope you enjoyed today show The father factor. Why? because fathers count. Remember, dads. All your children are equally yours. Until next time, hey, thank you. This is Byron the father factor podcast. Thank you for listening. If you'd like what you've heard, subscribe and share and tell us your thoughts. We'd like to hear from you. Perhaps you can be on our show until the fathers out there Remember all your children are equally yours.